That's now done on the mods web page and will also be in the next LFS test patch.

No, it's not possible.

This is not related to the test patch so that's as far as my answer will go.

Please do not use the test patch thread to talk about things unrelated to the test patch.

OK, I've done a fix for the replay slider + MCI disconnect issue in Test Patch E8.

Now, when clicking on replay slider or using IS_RIP to do the same thing, NLP/MCI packets will not be sent. I hope this works because I haven't actually tested it, but it was just a line of code.

In the case when using IS_RIP with option RIPOPT_FULL_PHYS the NLP/MCI packets are still sent. My hope is that because it is taking the time to do the physics, the rate of MCI output may be manageable. But I haven't tested this at all so I can't really confirm.


About the similar issue when joining a server, I couldn't think of a quick way to safely avoid sending the packets until LFS catches up with the server. I want to consider this a bit longer.

Updates to support approved mods in Test Patch E8. Please give thoughtful ratings to unapproved mods, or make comments on their threads to help them reach approved status.

Support for approved mods:

Tick (aka check mark) is shown in mods screen for approved mods
- also TW is shown for tweak mods and padlock for private mods
An 'external link icon' is visible when two columns are displayed
Rating stars pulsate in garage if you have not yet rated the mod

InSim:

NLP/MCI packets are no longer sent after clicking replay slider
- also not sent after IS_RIP unless RIPOPT_FULL_PHYS is set

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106967

Test Patch E7:

Tightened main model and wheel limits for mod reports
Unlock screen requires "unlock" to keep any changes
(if already unlocked the unlock count is unaffected)
More translation updates. Thank you translators!

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106967

No, I can't join either, your host needs restarting. The symptom I see (Queue Position : 1 endlessly) does happen after 49.7 days (aka 32 bits worth of milliseconds) and I believe I have fixed it in my own version, recently. But the fix isn't yet available. I'm wondering about moving soon to a minor update full version with various fixes and improvements seen in the test patch.

Test Patch E6 has more optimisations and a fix for the icon (I copied the old one by mistake when testing for E5).

As a rough guide, on my computer, the paused frame rate in a heavy external view (zoomed in on a full start grid) is up by around 10%.

EDIT: (I mean compared with version E). Considered another way, if you set an achievable limit to the frame rate, then the CPU usage for the Draw is around 10% less. Why I say "heavy external view" and e.g. start grid: Most of the optimisations are related to vehicles within LOD1/LOD2 distance. They will also help in driving views with a lot of cars around.

Some of the updates are applicable to the new graphical version in development too. So with these updates and the improved checks on mod limits, we should hopefully be running smoothly now and in future.

Optimisations:

Combine rim and spoke object into a single subobject
- saves 4 extra subobject switches for most cars
- update also applies to development version
An optimisation specially for external views
- avoid begin/end scene when drawing env maps/shadows
Tiny opt when drawing driver (avoid some integer maths)
Tiny opt (set projection matrix only once per frame)

Icon:

Fixed icon (old one was copied by mistake in E5 patch)

Translations:

More translation updates, thanks to translators!

Download:

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106967

Last edited by Scawen, Thu 15 Feb 2024, 19:38.

OK but how does it affect LFS?

If you could test and see if the memory usage issue and crash comes up with Adrenaline drivers, that would be useful information.

It's going well and I think there should be some improvements online

- reduced stutter when people leave pits (wheel and model limits)
- better frame rate (no wheels with enough triangles for a whole vehicle)
- shadows under all cars (invisible LOD2 is now detected)

Test Patch E3 includes improved detections for LOD2
Test Patch E4 avoids frequent reports about the same mod

Fixed in Test Patch E3

That's now done in Test Patch E2.

Text command /rtex

WARNING: THIS IS A TEST

THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW TYRE PHYSICS OR THE NEW GRAPHICS SYSTEM

PLEASE TEST BEFORE YOU POST

PLEASE... NO OFF TOPIC FEATURE REQUESTS!


Hello Racers,

Here is a new test patch: 0.7E15

Please read the list of changes below.

0.7E15 is COMPATIBLE with 0.7E

- You CAN connect online with 0.7E
- You CAN play single player replays from 0.7E

You should back up or rename your LFS.exe from version E so you can revert to it if necessary.


Changes in E15:

Improved auto updater and available hosting locations
- New update available is shown on entry screen
- Auto updater page is clearer and simpler to use
- Hosting locations are downloaded instead of hard coded


Changes in E14:

Mark host as favourite and sort by favourites in list of hosts
Sort by server location (two-letter country code) column


Changes in E13:

Improved handling of UDP packets not reaching the host
- List of Hosts comes direct from master server (no pinging)
- You can connect even if host does not receive your UDP packets


Changes in E12:

Cameras:

Small change in calculation of free view camera smoothing
- only intended as preparation for a future change
- slightly more efficient calculation
- should provide identical motion

Multiplayer:

Support for new command to set number of stops completed

Commands:

FIX: Multiple commands now allow more than 1 space between commands

Translations:

More updated translations - Thank you translators!


Changes in E11:

Cameras:

Layout Square cameras now have 40m height instead of 4m
Reduced jiggling of names above cars at extreme zoom
Improved accuracy of camera rotation at extreme zoom

Commands:

/vlock=car/filter/horizon
/lookf=joystick/axis/steer/mouse_x/mouse_xy
/control=mouse_kb/wheel_js


Changes in E10:

FIX: Invert mouse axis did not work in E9


Changes in E9:

Input range improvements:

The full resolution reported by the controller is now supported
- previously drivers were instructed to report -1000 to 1000
- controllers we tested report values 0 to 65535
- so steering wheel moves in smaller steps
The range adjusters in controller options now use percentage values
- the range defaults replicate previously default in-game behaviour
- previously brake/throttle/handbrake/clutch axes had a dead zone
- the dead zones were not adjustable by the user but now are
- the axes visible in game now match the options screen

Support for mod approval:

WIP filter is available on the mod selection screen

Translations:

More translations updated! Thanks to the translators


Changes in E8:

Support for approved mods:

Tick (aka check mark) is shown in mods screen for approved mods
- also TW is shown for tweak mods and padlock for private mods
An 'external link icon' is visible when two columns are displayed
Rating stars pulsate in garage if you have not yet rated the mod

InSim:

NLP/MCI packets are no longer sent after clicking replay slider
- also not sent after IS_RIP unless RIPOPT_FULL_PHYS is set


Changes in E7:

Tightened main model and wheel limits for mod reports
Unlock screen requires "unlock" to keep any changes
(if already unlocked the unlock count is unaffected)
More translation updates. Thank you translators!


Changes in E6:

Optimisations:

Combine rim and spoke object into a single subobject
- saves 4 extra subobject switches for most cars
- update also applies to development version
An optimisation specially for external views
- avoid begin/end scene when drawing env maps/shadows
Tiny opt when drawing driver (avoid some integer maths)
Tiny opt (set projection matrix only once per frame)

Icon:

Fixed icon (old one was copied by mistake in E5 patch)

Translations:

More translation updates, thanks to translators!


Changes in E5:

Mods screen:

New button to show your own mods
Ability to switch on multiple vehicle type filters
New filters for drive type (none/RWD/FWD/AWD)
New sort options power/mass/power-weight ratio
X button beside text filters stops text entry
Updated translations - thanks to translators

Optimisations:

Decreased CPU used when drawing tyres
- reduces CPU used by official GTR cars by around 7%
- smaller optimisation for suspension parts


Changes in E4:

Prevents frequent excess reports for the same mod


Changes in E3:

LOD2 limit detections:

Use true limit of 8192 (which is excessive even if legal)
- LOD2 should really be nearer 1000 triangles (see official cars)
- The check in E2 was extra lenient (as it still is for wheels)
Added check for invisible LOD2 (there is no need for bad LOD2)
- Thread about LOD2: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106736


Changes in E2:

Automatic reporting system for mods with excessive triangles
New command /rtex does a full texture reload from any screen
Some updated translations - thank you translators!

FIX: New steer animation for BF1 stops driver toes protruding
FIX: Minor documentation errors in InSim.txt


INSTALLATION:

Live for Speed LFS 0.7E must already be installed!

To install the patch, download and run the patch installer.

NOTE: You can see if the patch is correctly installed when you run
LFS. Check the version number at the bottom of the entry screen.


DOWNLOAD:

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE 0.7E:
PATCH 0.7E TO 0.7E15 (INSTALLER)
https://www.lfs.net/file_lfs.p ... ATCH_7E_TO_7E15_setup.exe (1.8 MB)

Last edited by Scawen, Wed 3 Jul 2024, 17:40.

One suggestion to get some more info.

If you run task manager (CTRL+SHIFT+ESC) then in "Processes" tab and start LFS in a window you can see LFS.exe which should be somewhere on the page if you sort by CPU or Memory.

The thing to do is watch the "Memory" number when you do some things in LFS. As a first test just load a small track (layout square) then a big track (Westhill) then load a small track again. The memory usage should go up when you load the big track then down again when you load the smaller track.

If that seems to work, now go online and see what happens. Does your memory usage go up and up and up, and then you get the memory allocation problem? Or does it all look OK and then you just get the problem anyway?

I hope you see what I mean, maybe you can run LFS in a window so you can see the task manager at the same time and just let us know what the memory usage does. Maybe there will be a clue in the result.

A new update for the Editor, Test Patch E4, is available.

The official vehicles needed an update for the new rims and dashboard options. I've been through them all and added features to help in the rim editor and spoke editor.

Most notably, the rim guide now shows a complete minimal rim profile (not only the flange and seat). The "well" or "drop centre" is included, which can help guide you to make a realistic rim profile for your wheels. A well is required on all car wheels so that the tyre can be fitted. If there was no well, it would be impossible to get the tyre bead over the rim flange to mount on the wheel. The well is normally near the outer face of the wheel (the side that you see) but there is an option in the rim editor to move it inward for the case of "reverse mount" wheels, which are less common and require the tyre to be mounted from the back of the wheel. There is an option to move the well to the maximum extent allowed by the standards.

The LFS guide has been constructed to comply with the "J" rim profile that is most commonly used on road cars. It also adapts for bike rims, which have a smaller flange and a less deep, central well.

I have updated all the vehicles supplied in the editor, so you can see the alloy style rim profiles that I have updated to be more realistic than they were before. Compared with steel rims, alloys allow some flexibility in rim design but they must always include the J profile rim flange and well. So if you see any of the rim guide protruding from your wheel, you should probably adjust something.


Changes in Editor E4:

Rim editor:

A complete rim profile cross section is now shown
Options for rim guide well offset and reverse mount
Points are a different colour in surface mode
Protection against adding duplicate or opposite surfaces
FIX: + and - buttons did not instantly update the 3D model

Spoke editor:

A complete 3D rim profile is now shown
Separate show options for spoke / rim / tyre / guide
It is now possible to rename the first mapping in the list
A "rim" button is shown beside the first mapping (used for rim)

Misc:

A new set of vehicles is included with updated dash and wheels
Engine damage and shift light can be enabled in the dash editor

Download:

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106792

I suggest before settling on a car, you create a full grid of AI, choose a track which shows the whole grid in one view, but doesn't use too much CPU (e.g. South City) and pause the game before anyone moves.

Then you can gauge the relative CPU usage in one of two ways.

1) With unlimited frame rate get a reading of frame rate with the mod and compare that with another mod or official car.

2) Set a fixed frame rate and check CPU usage for the draw. In Options - Misc click the car button then the P button and check CPU use for "Draw". A CPU test of this type must be done with a fixed, achievable frame rate so that the comparison can produce useful results.

If you find that a mod uses a lot of CPU to draw, here are some tips on how to reduce it, successfully applied to the N.400S GT4.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2075561#post2075561

Editor Test Patch E3 contains fixes and improvements:

Modeller cutout screen:

FIX: Number of materials and material index were wrong for subobjects
- helps when optimising a model for frame rate by texture sharing

Engine editor:

Increased maximum value of "Turbo MOI Multiplier" to 2.0
- allows turbo to spool up slower (more turbo lag)

Rim guide in rim editor and spoke editor:

Decreased the minimum width of car rim flange (was 12mm, now 11mm)
- this is correct for the 'J' rim profile used on modern road cars

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106792

Last edited by Scawen, Mon 22 Jan 2024, 18:09.

It's a very nice looking mod but I have been wondering what causes the slowdowns when watching on Simbroadcasts. My investigations are not complete. I'm stopping for the day but have some observations. It's not all about the number of triangles.

Incorrect setting "Concealed driver" - this should be YES - absolutely this vehicle has a concealed driver (it's not a motorbike or a kart). This one setting appears to waste around 3% of CPU with 32 on the grid.

By the way, "Wheel visibility" should be "inside covered" though I think this is only for looks now. It's not an open wheel racing car, so this will produce a better lighting effect on the wheels.

Another graphical cost is lack of texture sharing. For example the wheel objects are slower to draw than they could be because the alpha cutouts use 3 different textures. The 3 different transparent textures should share a single texture page, so LFS does not have to waste CPU time instructing D3D to switch between textures (texture switching is slow). If you set this right, then when drawing wheel alpha, instead of 3 texture switches and 3 draw calls, it would do a single texture switch and a single draw call.

There could be similar case in the main object (or other subobjects) but I haven't looked much. I do see an S and a backwards S using the same texture but flipped. Can't you use the same texture but flip the cutout?

Of course "repeating textures" cannot share a texture page. But some other textures can, and this can avoid switching between textures during the render of the car, saving CPU time.

EDIT: (next morning)

You can easily get the spoke object down to one single texture instead of 5 at the moment. How to do that:
1) Combine the 4 256 textures onto a single 512 page, the obvious way.
2) For the "unnamed" (no texture) cutout use a small white square on the new texture page. There is space beside the bolts.

More optimisations:
- If possible, combine the hub object into the spoke object. Every moving subobject is a frame rate hit.
- Change "muffler" subobject into an attachment. "Attachment" subobjects are merged into the main object so they don't cause the same frame rate hits as a moving subobject. The vibrating muffler gimmick isn't worth the frame rate hit.
- Steering wheel subobject can be made way more efficient by combining textures. The 11 small button textures could be combined onto a single texture. The [no texture] page can be eliminated by using a small square from the new texture. And the "plain transparent" texture at the end of the list can also be combined into the same texture page. So this combines 13 textures into a single texture page. Only the two repeating textures need to be left on their own page. 15 textures on the steering wheel now, can be reduced to only 3.

Let's do some maths, for 40 cars on the grid.
For the wheel objects described above, we save 4 texture changes per wheel = 16 per car = 640 per graphical frame.
For the steering wheel optimisation, we save 12 texture changes per car = 480 per graphical frame.

So by these simple changes we save 1120 calls to "Set texture" every graphical frame.

Also don't use "TEA" (Tree Edge Alpha). Tree Edge Alpha is not supported for vehicles, it's a special thing for trees with intersecting polygons that only works for world objects. Applied to a car it looks exactly the same as ALPHA so you are adding one more material for no reason.

[I notice one bug, in cutout mode when a subobject is selected: "materials : X" at the top is showing the number for the main object. I'll fix this in next editor test patch. You really should be aiming to reduce the number of materials so that number would help.]

Last edited by Scawen, Mon 22 Jan 2024, 09:30.

Some thoughts...

First 2 paragraphs are just "history of last few days" you can ignore and go to "Summary of some issues" below.

1) Although I didn't want to get involved with mods again this month, I ended up falling into it when we discovered the exploits some people were using. I'm not talking about moderate amounts, but some ugly abuses of the system. In conjunction with reports of pit-out glitches, it was important to act. We need some sense in the mods. I became aware of some terrible low quality mods, for example: (a) massively high polygon model, with stripped out main config to pass the export check (b) wheels with over 10,000 triangles. So we had to do something and the obvious starting point was to enforce the limits that have always been there and are allowed in the current editor.

2) Discussion, participation and cooperation on this thread has done at least two positive things (a) increased awareness of the Rim Editor that has improved a lot since the older version and (b) increased my understanding of some of the limitations of the Spoke Editor / Rim Editor combination (especially when using the proper limits).

Summary of some issues and possible solutions, future and present:

1) The Rim Editor suffers from lack of material selection. This isn't a problem for most rim designs but there are still a lot of rim designs for which this is a serious limitation. Rims use the first mapping in the Spoke Editor, for their texture and material settings. A mapping selector could be added in an incompatible version at some point, but that is not desirable at this time.

2) In cases where Rim Editor does not provide enough flexibility, Spoke Editor's limitation of 1600 triangles can be a problem. Rim editor actually allows 22 surfaces * 60 around * 2 triangles per quad = 2640 triangles. Today I have been thinking that the triangle budget could be shared between rim and spoke object, a total of 2640 + 1600 = 4240 triangles per wheel.

3) This budget sharing suggestion allows an empty rim object and up to 4240 in the spoke object if that is the way you prefer to do it but this has a limitation that the "steel rim guide" (yellow in rim editor) cannot be seen in the spoke editor. This is a problem in my opinion because in the real world, wheels of a certain specification must have a rim flange in the right place and the right size. This is necessary so that different manufacturers' tyres can be mounted on different manufacturers' wheels. The shape of the rim flange (on the inside, where it meets the tyre) is specified by standards organisations such as ETRTO. Road cars use a "J Rim Profile" in case you want to read about it (though information is scarce). This is not easy to enforce properly in a freehand editor. I've been wondering about a 3 dimensional version of the rim guide that is currently visible in the spoke editor, for the spoke editor, showing in a bright colour the minimum amount of material that you should cover to produce a realistic rim for the given wheel dimensions.

4) Additionally the editor needs to check limits properly before export to avoid confusion when uploading. I don't see it as a big deal to release an editor test patch if the output is fully compatible with the public version of LFS.

Last edited by Scawen, Wed 17 Jan 2024, 18:54.

Here is the link to the test patch thread which shows changes in test patches after test patch D48.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106005-Test-Patch-D64

I can't see any relevant changes in AI there, so I believe their driving did not change since D48.

It's not the time to talk to me about changing the limits. I am working on other things and could do without a battle against mod hackers.

The rim editor updates were introduced during the test patch stages. It would have been good to discuss it at that time, as you may know that is what test patches are for. To introduce updates and test them. The idea of a test patch is not just to keep quiet and hope I don't notice the use of hacking tools, which I admit I have been slow to notice.

There is a rim editor, a spoke editor and there are also hub objects, that you are free to use within the limits.

EDIT: This thread is now obsolete.
A new triangle budget of 4240 is shared between spoke and rim objects
You can get the new editor in the Editor Test Patch Thread


I recently learned that some people discovered a hack that allowed them to exceed the triangle limits for spoke objects.

The mod checker now makes sure you do not exceed triangle limits when uploading a mod.

There shouldn't be any need to exceed the limit of 1600 triangles per spoke object.

The trick is... do not include the rim in the spoke object!

Use the RIM EDITOR to make the rim.
Use the SPOKE EDITOR to make the spokes.

The rim editor has been updated in the recent update. I did a lot of work on it and it is a lot better than in the original LFS Editor. You create the cross-section of a rim by adding points and connecting the points with surfaces. The rim uses the first mapping from the spoke object, so you can use any material settings you wish (including a texture if you like).

There is a new guide in the rim editor that shows the cross-section of a steel rim when you are in the rim editor. The idea is that the steel rim represents the minimum amount of material. Alloys have thicker metal and exceed the steel rim outline.

These two images show the sequence for setting up a realistic rim.

EDIT: Added 3 more images showing examples of steel rim and two (of many) possibilities for alloy rims.

First set the correct rim width.


Then edit the rim, making sure you cover the steel rim profile.


An example of a steel rim style:


Alloy example 1:


Alloy example 2:

Last edited by Scawen, Thu 18 Jan 2024, 19:27.

I confirm automatic downshifts occur at lower RPM and this was done during the test patch stage, with plenty of time for testing. The main reason it was done was because of the automatic shift at high rpm unsettling bikes a lot.

I am sure the new downshift time will not be ideal for all vehicles on all corners, but then it never was really ideal.

Competitive racers use a gear shifter to choose the best shift time so that is really the way forward and I believe you'll find it more fun in the end.

Quote from teeembo :

The Rim Editor appears to be working as intended.

Thank you for that test.

Quote from Drifteris :

Small issue, but ignition switch test is missing in vehicle editor. I got one slider connected to that but in order to test it i have to change it to horn or something.

Yeah, I wasn't able to do that, as it was a bit complicated as the car doesn't really have its engine on. It wasn't straightforward like the others.

D63 (LFS and Editor versions) out now and I hope to do no more test patches at all.

If you can test, please do. I really don't want bug reports immediately after 0.7E is released.

LFS: https://lfs.net/forum/thread/106005
Editor: https://lfs.net/forum/thread/106004

Quote from bayanofmansorofisky :

Can the spinning subobject be modified to when the user stops the function, the spinning continues to the original place. Or maybe an editor option (continue spinning to origin yes or no)

This is now done in D63. Please test if you can.

Quote from superlame :

Before the 0.7E release (saying that because I saw post on the Discord that you are planning release of a official version this weekend) - can we have Hazards and Left & Right indicators on the same place to be able to be animated. Also animation for the Sidelights, since there is a switch for them on the mod I am making right now. Thanks

In D63:

New switch options for rotator and slider: signal / light switch
New flip function "with driver" (move across with driver / no flip)

There is no separate switch for sidelights, but the light switch option goes:

0 - off
1 - sidelights (1 x rotation)
2 - headlights (2 x rotation)

The signal switch goes:

left: -1 x rotation
off: 0
right: 1 x rotation

It's last day coding which is not recommended, but will be OK if you can test it.